Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Knots

This is the talk page for discussing WikiProject Knots and anything related to its purposes and tasks.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Deprecatory comment on Ashley's bend

I submit that the deprecatory comment on Ashley's bend now needs to be modified or eliminated. Dmacdd (talk) 14:15, 15 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well, now that I understand the "articles containing how-to content" category, I think not. How can you have useful descriptions of knots without how-to content? Is this why this project seems moribund? Letting it die may be a rational reaction to such a rule. Now, I'm completely new at Wikis and Wikipedia. IS there something in the culture that says the rule will be/ may be recognized as unduly restrictive for knots, if we keep at it? Or has the project decided that the deprecatory flag on how-to content isn't that big a deal? Dmacdd (talk) 20:20, 15 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Unheadlined comment

This article states that the New York Times mistakenly attributed the Pratt knot to Don Shelby. But the Times story referred to - on August 30, 1989 - which can be easily obtained by searching the headline "As Neckwear Goes, This Knot's News" and restricting the date range appropriately in the now-free New York Times archives - that article clearly not only mentions Mr. Pratt but attributes the Shelby-Pratt knot to him. Louis Massano. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.89.190.15 (talk) 07:16, 11 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Since it appears this project is inactive, I'm about to be bold. Johan Andersson 07:20, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You make it sound so mischievous. --Smack (talk) 00:34, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Half hitch vs. Munter hitch

There's something funny about our treatment of the half hitch: it redirects to Munter hitch. See Talk:Munter hitch. --Smack (talk) 18:39, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion on "Informal Guidelines on Editing Knotting Articles"

My thinking on this subject was influenced by my recent work on the Rolling hitch and Taut-line hitch articles. I wanted to record this stuff somewhere while it was fresh in my head, so I decided to add it to this project page. I am looking for others to modify or add to these basic ideas so that we can come up with a set of guidelines that allow unified progress toward better knotting articles. Hopefully these thoughts can form a starting point for a group concensus on the content and organization of knot articles. I look forward to your comments on and improvement of the guidelines. --Dfred 05:56, 26 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Project Directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council is currently in the process of developing a master directory of the existing WikiProjects to replace and update the existing Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. These WikiProjects are of vital importance in helping wikipedia achieve its goal of becoming truly encyclopedic. Please review the following pages:

User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory,
User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory 2,
User:Badbilltucker/Philosophy and religion Directory,
User:Badbilltucker/Sports Directory,
User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory,
User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory/United States, (note: This page will be retitled to more accurately reflect its contents)
User:Badbilltucker/History and society directory, and
User:Badbilltucker/Science directory

and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope to have the existing directory replaced by the updated and corrected version of the directory above by November 1. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 22:44, 23 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry if you tried to update it before, and the corrections were gone. I have now moved the new draft in the old directory pages, so the links should work better. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused you. B2T2 14:41, 24 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The old directory has been replaced. Please find the current updated directory at WP:PROJDIR. Badbilltucker 14:54, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Diagrams

We have Category:Knot diagrams, which I've seeded with three of my own photos, plus everyone's favorite Flemish bend. Is there another collection of pictures, or should we run around and tag all of our pictures with this category? --Smack (talk) 06:01, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I just de-categorized Category:Knot diagrams yesterday because it has been a category with only one entry since the first tag. Plus, your item are not diagrams, they are photographs. I'm not sure if having such a category will be helpful. Do other projects have their images in their own category? If so, I say go for it. Dddstone 12:41, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I guess we could rename it to "Knot pictures" or something like that. I figured that we need a big heap to keep the pictures in, but I'm not actually sure why. --Smack (talk) 06:19, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

New sample article

In its current state Bowline does not represent where I'd like to see knotting articles go: specifically the unwikified format, unencyclpedic tone, lack of references, and NPOV issues wrt tying methods. My feeling is that since it doesn't represent where we're headed, we should pick an article that does -- at least for the time being until Bowline's issues are addressed. I would nominate Constrictor knot to replace Bowline. It is a simple, useful knot and the article has most of the elements I would like to see in all knotting articles. Thoughts? --Dfred 05:45, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

After continued work on the Constrictor article I have changed it to be the project's sample article. --Dfred 17:56, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 16:49, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal to rename knot component articles

Due to potential overloading of terms, I'm proposing the articles on knot components (e.g. Bight (knot), Loop (knot)) be renamed with (knot component) instead of (knot). This clarifies the fact that these articles are not about knots themselves, which in the case of Loop (knot) is potentially confusing. After the rename Loop (knot) will become an article on the class of knots, rather than the component. --Dfred 20:07, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Portal:Textile Arts

This portal is currently undergoing its second Portal Peer Review, and your comments/feedback would be appreciated at the portal peer review subpage. Cirt (talk) 12:03, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reasoning behind knots and splices

Paragraphs like that on splices "It is typically used for light lines (e.g., the log-line) where a single splice would tend to come undone, the rope being frequently wet." are extremely useful bits of information that explain why a knot or splice is used over another and for what reason. Not only are they an important part of the history and use of the knot or splice but essentially explain it's reason for existence and use over purely decorative designs. Propose more use cases and reasoning like this - as it is often something that is not written down. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.134.136.170 (talk) 22:18, 25 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A discussion

An important discussion on " Should WikiProjects get prior approval of other WikiProjects (Descendant or Related or any ) to tag articles that overlaps their scope ? " is open here . We welcome you to participate and give your valuable opinions. -- TinuCherian ^{(Wanna Talk?)} - , member of WikiProject Council. 14:52, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Identify this knot, please

Two questions. What is the name of the knot being tied in the black braided rope in this Commons category? Is the black twisted rope in the last picture tied with the same knot? Thanks. --Una Smith (talk) 21:31, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In the end it results in a mooring hitch. Buz11 (talk) 14:03, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

New article request

Done

Please pull together into an article the dispersed Wikipedia content about draw-loops, slipped knots, and "quick release" knots. I want to link to such an article. --Una Smith (talk) 21:44, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Found Bight (knot). --Una Smith (talk) 22:50, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Misdirected link in KnotsProject Template

The template KnotsProject links to Knots, which redirects to Knots_(speed). That's really not what is desired here.

I made some knot images

I made some knot images, so far only of the Alpine butterfly knot: http://www.flickr.com/photos/avarab/collections/72157615576604530/

The images are licensed under CC-BY, perhaps they would be useful in the relevant article? Often there are multiple ways to tie a given knot and having instructions for all of them is IMO valuable.

Since the images are freely licensed they can be copied over to Wikimedia Commons if someone can be bothered, I'd do it but I haven't written a program to do so and the manual method is tedious.

If there are any other articles that need such illustrations I could provide them. --Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 19:05, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Are there enough articles on Wikipedia to justify an Outline of knots?

Here's a discussion about subject development you might find interesting.

The Transhumanist 23:34, 28 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

P.S.: See Outline of sharks.

There's a list of knots and a list of knot theory topics. Michael Hardy (talk) 22:19, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Lanyard knot identfication

Another editor has asked at the reference desks for help in identifying and finding instructions for making a lanyard. The question is at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous#Unknown lanyard. I feel sure there must be someone here able to help! Thank you. DuncanHill (talk) 23:04, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I took a shot at it... --Dfred (talk) 01:57, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Disclaimers on articles

Not sure if this project is still active ({{semi-active}}?) but I figured I'd leave a notice here that I removed a disclaimer from the article Euro death-knot, which I just happened upon randomly. This was done as per the Wikipedia:NODISCLAIMERS guideline. Not sure how many other Knot articles have such a disclaimer but if for whatever reason this project decides to disregard that guideline it should probably be discussed here first. -- œ ^™ 01:00, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Highwayman's hitch

I am concerned about this edit. At first I thought it might be simple vandalism, but it looks like there may be an actual controversy over the stability of the highwayman's hitch. It is discussed at Talk:Highwayman's hitch. I think that the solution may be to keep the text more like this version but then add in a caveat about Capsizing, but I don't know if that is valid because I don't really know anything about the subject. Can someone on this WikiProject shine any light on the subject? Yaris678 (talk) 18:04, 27 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Friendship Knot

I am considering an article on the Friendship knot, which is used by Scouts and Guides to tie their scarves or neckerchieves.[1] [2] [3] [4]. It's rather like a capsized Carrick bend but the working and standing ends are in different places if you see what I mean. Apparently, it's easier to tie on someone else's scarf so you need a friend - although I find the opposite is true. Are there other names for it? Any other comments before I have a stab at it?Alansplodge (talk) 21:18, 31 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's me again. I found this which appears to be the same knot. It calls it a "Square knot", which redirects to Reef knot in Wikipedia. It gives an Ashley Book of Knots reference of ABOK #1032. Do we have an article for this and if so, where is it? Alansplodge (talk) 21:37, 31 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

When someone creates Friendship knot, there could be a redirect to it from Square knot (decorative), and a link to it added to the hatnote at Reef knot. Ashley calls it "A decorative Chinese Loop. This is commonly employed as a Lanyard Knot. It is handsome and secure." __ Just plain Bill (talk) 00:03, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The knot you are referring to does not yet have an article. As Just plain Bill notes, there are various reasonable ways to deal with the conflicting naming issue. It appears the name "square knot" was/is used for this knot (#1032) in the UK, but in the US "square knot" has for a very long time (at least since 1841) referred to the reef knot.

Using the name "friendship knot" for the article's title is not without issues, however, as that name is also used sometimes for the diamond knot. And further, as noted in the true lover's knot article, the association of knots with the symbolism of friendship is ancient enough that calling any individual knot the "friendship knot" is probably difficult to completely justify historically. However, the knot does seem to be well-known by this name and I think the naming issues can be discussed/clarified in the article. There are a few other possible names that might work for the title, but it is not a huge deal to rename an article later. So I say go ahead and get it started under Friendship knot and we can continue the naming discussion on the new talk page. I'll see if I can dig up some additional references to add, and also some more solid information on alternate names that might be more suitable for an article title. BTW, the ABOK entries I've identified for this knot so far are: #808, #809, #1032, and #1066... --Dfred (talk) 05:44, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your helpful comments. I'll probably get started in a few days' time. Alansplodge (talk) 13:07, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Can somebody please have a look at my crude attempt at a Friendship knot image and let me know if it passes muster? Alansplodge (talk) 18:45, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Knots vs Knot theory

Is the mathematical topic of Knot theory considered to be within the scope of this project?

I have noticed that the talk pages of some small knot-theory articles have the knot project, but not major pages such as Knot theory and Knot (mathematics). If this is a mistake, should they be removed? (and/or replaced with wikiproject mathematics?) --Qetuth (talk) 09:11, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Navbox - feedback sought

I'm not a member of this project, but have created a draft navbox for knot articles: User:Yunshui/Knots navbox. I'd appreciate feedback from knot-project editors before I turn it into a template and start whacking it on artcles. At present it seems a bit large and unwieldy, and I'm not sure about the categorisation of some of the knots. Please leave any comments at User talk:Yunshui/Knots navbox, and feel free to edit the draft yourselves. Cheers, Yunshui 雲‍水 13:46, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nasa's knots

I saw this, International Guild of Knot Tyers Forum - Knots on Mars! (and a few thoughts on NASA's knots), and thought some here might appreciate. Possibly some ideas, or leads to refs, for various articles? ttfn, —Quiddity (talk) 09:17, 9 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Grief knot / grass bend / water knot

We have separate articles on both grief knot and water knot, which I think are the same knot. It seems to me that both articles would be well-served if they were merged. I am not an expert on knots, however, so I am referring the matter to your project to act on as you think best. —Mark Dominus (talk) 22:49, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Leaflet for Wikiproject Knots at Wikimania 2014

Hi all,

My name is Adi Khajuria and I am helping out with Wikimania 2014 in London.

One of our initiatives is to create leaflets to increase the discoverability of various wikimedia projects, and showcase the breadth of activity within wikimedia. Any kind of project can have a physical paper leaflet designed - for free - as a tool to help recruit new contributors. These leaflets will be printed at Wikimania 2014, and the designs can be re-used in the future at other events and locations.

This is particularly aimed at highlighting less discoverable but successful projects, e.g:

• Active Wikiprojects: Wikiproject Medicine, WikiProject Video Games, Wikiproject Film

• Tech projects/Tools, which may be looking for either users or developers.

• Less known major projects: Wikinews, Wikidata, Wikivoyage, etc.

• Wiki Loves Parliaments, Wiki Loves Monuments, Wiki Loves ____

• Wikimedia thematic organisations, Wikiwomen’s Collaborative, The Signpost

The deadline for submissions is 1st July 2014

For more information or to sign up for one for your project, go to:

Project leaflets
Adikhajuria (talk) 16:51, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal

Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject X is live!

Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

Note: To receive additional notifications about WikiProject X on this talk page, please add this page to Wikipedia:WikiProject X/Newsletter. Otherwise, this will be the last notification sent about WikiProject X.

Harej (talk) 16:57, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Meandering like a an uncoiled rope

Hi,

Just a few random thoughts on the subject of knots. Me: amateurishly interested. Some years at sea, though. Plea: not guildy.

Knot combinatorics (+): If we can go reductionist and identify 5 or so "basic elements" of knots, the number of possible permutations should be very large. Cravatte tiers have made a website where you can choose from more than (IIRC?) 100k knots, to illustrate my point (knot all tangled rope is a proper knot). However, from a definition of technique (highest output for minimum input) + the criterion of ease of untying, this "phase space" will reduce to the knots we know (i.e. ABOK). IOW, do we need a (non-math) definiton of "knot"?

Knot combinatorics (-): What can we learn from "knot x" being constructed of loops, half hitches or half turns? Nothing useful when you are hanging on for your life in the rigging in a gale. Scil.: actual method of tying being independent of theoretical schematics means either that theoretical schematics are sterile, or that methods of tying is a more useful categoriztion, provided they can be categorized.

Math Knot theory Math Knot theory is useless for knotting. Pour example, all knots tied on the bight are not mathematical knots, as they do not "close". Put simply, math knots and real knots do not belong in the same discourse.

Knot classification - genus aspect Knots = use of thread (rope, line, yarn, fiber...); thread is used in sowing, cloth-making, carpetry, dressmaking, decorative work, fishing ... Use of knots aboard ship is one of many other uses of fiber. Seamanship _could_ have been a mother discipline to knotwork, on account of taxonomy. Of course there is the paradox that on a ship, rope is used instead of stone, iron, wood ... so, much is done to avoid using knots, in favour of tech that does not reduce rope reliability, (e.g. splices). However, you use a knot when no belaying pin is at hand. Stop gap tech. Then there are the myriad ohter ascpects of ropework (serving, catting, mousing, whipping ...) and the myriad other sectors of seamanship.

Knot classification - species aspect There's "utility" knots (knots being used to do mechanical work), "meta-knots" (knots being used to modify rope to e.g. facilitate e.g. use of rope (like stopper knots such as the stevedore knot providing better grip, shortenings such as the sheepshank, coiling, mats, .... possibly bends to extend ropes ...), and decorative knots (such as the Turks head, Monkey Fist, plaits and sinnets ....) AFAICS modern braided rope is a "never-ending" plait, and as such a "knot" of purpose-determined length.

Knots and rope Knots are intimately associated with their material. One chief concern is the breaking point. It therefore would make sense to include splices as part of "rope technology" under "seamanship" more than under "knots", since splices technically are not knots, unless one makes a definition that says that they are. At present, short splices et. al. are "weave", long splices are "lay based rope joinings".

Procedural knowledge Then there is the 'Correspondance Course in Bicycling' aspect: knotting is an aristotelian "techne", it should be known to your hands more than your head; and there are indeed sailors' ways of tying knots that have little to do with red and blue animated placards which no one has time to consult in an emergency anyway. Of course this cannot be solved until there is a wikipedia video how-to channel. One can do almost every Ashley function with an overhand knot. An overhand knot can be tied in one hand. Say no more.

All this to say that the subject of "knots" merits some thought on how to categorize it, and the subject of knots some on how to categorize them. Also there is, AFAICS, no page on "History of knots". No RS?

T 88.89.219.147 (talk) 04:45, 28 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Requested Move

Talk:Slipknot (band) to Slipknot. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:33, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Gripping sailor's hitch

Gripping sailor's hitch should not redirect to Sailor's hitch (a different knot).
Instead, it should be removed, and Gripping Sailor's hitch moved to its place.
--John Navas (talk) 02:11, 25 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed --John Navas (talk) 15:58, 25 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Double hitch / two half-hitches

This page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_half-hitches, declares the double hitch to be a binding knot, but is not linked to from this list of binding knots, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_binding_knots. Hope this helps!

86.141.249.103 (talk) 17:10, 14 March 2017 (UTC) Rædwulf (non-member)[reply]

A new newsletter directory is out!

A new Newsletter directory has been created to replace the old, out-of-date one. If your WikiProject and its taskforces have newsletters (even inactive ones), or if you know of a missing newsletter (including from sister projects like WikiSpecies), please include it in the directory! The template can be a bit tricky, so if you need help, just post the newsletter on the template's talk page and someone will add it for you.

– Sent on behalf of Headbomb. 03:11, 11 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Template:The Ashley Book of Knots

See: Template:The Ashley Book of Knots, which may be used to cite The Ashley Book of Knots consistently or edited so as to do so. Hyacinth (talk) 06:07, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Boa knot ABOK

Boa knot seems like ABOK 1201 p218

Looks similar, but is it not. The Boa knot has some more 'entanglement' in the center under the two crossing parts on top. Buz11 (talk) 14:11, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion on knot theory templates

Please see the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mathematics#Template:Infobox_knot_vs_Template:Infobox_knot_theory. Mathwriter2718 (talk) 13:12, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Prusik knot listed at Requested moves

A requested move discussion has been initiated for Prusik knot to be moved to Prusik hitch. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 17:17, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude {{bots|deny=RMCD bot}}, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject.

Requested move at Talk:Prusik knot#Requested move 15 November 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Prusik knot#Requested move 15 November 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Raladic (talk) 19:02, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]